Can anyone recommend a gun safe?
 

Can anyone recommend a gun safe?

I'm in a position where I need to re-evaluate some storage issues. Thinking of cleaning out my "gun closet" and getting rid of my small safe and getting one large gun safe for everything...

I don't want any junk.

Thanks in advance guys.

Re: Can anyone recommend a gun safe?
 

Liberty safe. My Family has four of them - great product and exceptional value.

www.libertysafe.com/safe_lincoln.php

Re: Can anyone recommend a gun safe?
 

I vote for the Liberty also.

You will pay more than what you will find in many places. But built hell for stout and a better than many fire rating.

I did a lot of looking before I pick them.

Re: Can anyone recommend a gun safe?
 

For the money, I highly recommend Summit Safes.
http://www.summitsafes.com/index.html

These safes are made by Heritage Safe Co. So look at http://www.heritagesafe.com/security.html for the many features.

These safes are built under contract for an association of safe dealers.
They are a much better safe than Liberty.

Re: Can anyone recommend a gun safe?
 

I have a Fort Knox and two Halls.

It would also depend on where you live as the closer you are to a safe mfg the cheaper it should be if you factor in transportation from mfg to distributor and or to dealer.

I took the truck down to Halls and picked them up myself and saved a lot of dough.

http://www.ftknox.com/
http://www.hallsafe.com/

Re: Can anyone recommend a gun safe?
 

jj are you close to ky i have a safe it weight beteen 1500 an 2000 ponds , 900.00 bucks an it yours if it was new it would be 3000 to 4000 t

Re: Can anyone recommend a gun safe?
 

Depends on the model. All lines have their value, or entry level, models.
I suggest going mid-line or better and comparing features.

Liberty just happens to be very popular in my area, most of the better Gun shops carry and recommend them. I have also heard good things about the Knox boxes as well.

Be sure that you secure the safe and keep it out of sight (not in the garage).
A poor sap in Jersey had his coin collection stolen because thieves got a peek at his safe every time he opened his street facing garage door. :banghead:

Re: Can anyone recommend a gun safe?
 

You want a B rated safe or better, not something that is rated RSC (residential security container).

Summit Everest Edition is B rated. http://www.libertysafeofmd.com/everest_edition.htm

The Everest is probably what I will buy in 2009. If I had a higher budget I would go with a Graffunder that starts at B rate and goes up to E rate.

http://www.libertysafeofmd.com/Graffunder_Safe.htm

Amsec also makes a great gun safe that is TL rated (tool resistant). Too big for what I need. http://www.amsecusa.com/gun-safes-HS-main.htm

If I went Liberty or Ft Knox (which are RSC's), I would only consider their top level model and to me that would be a compromise over a true B rate or better safe.

I think RSCs are only rated for less than 5 minutes under a Tool Resistant standard. TL-15 and TL-30 rated safes are much better.

There are a couple of guys over on thehighroad forum that really know their stuff on safes (CB900F and A1ABDJ):

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthrea...ight=Safes+RSC

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthrea...ight=Safes+RSC

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=155988 Great picture of an attacked RSC in here.

Re: Can anyone recommend a gun safe?
 

JJ,
Lots of choices. I have a National Security (Liberty) and I'm happy with it.

http://www.libertysafe.com/

Many premium makers out there with numerous ratings. No experience with either of these, but they sure look nice.

http://www.brownsafe.com/categories/...y/company.html

http://graffundersafes.com/

Also, I think someone on this board posted some great information on ratings, but I can't seem to find it.

Take Care,
Mod1

Re: Can anyone recommend a gun safe?
 

is it really going to help you that much? I mean, if an amateur makes it into your place and finds a safe like that, they can't touch it, but if they blab to someone more knowledgeable, then you have something to be concerned about. Also, there's the issue of having family held hostage for the combo/house invasion type scenario. I am just not sure about this.

Can anyone throw some pro's and con's out there on these things. I agree a safe for the guns is a good idea, and if you did it right you could keep other things in there, but is the safe "safe"?

Re: Can anyone recommend a gun safe?
 

These are modular for easier take-down and moving: http://www.zanottiarmor.com/

Re: Can anyone recommend a gun safe?
 

Nothing is full proof. But the alternatives are:

1) having them in a place that anyone can take them.

2) Using a gun locker that is thin sheet metal and can be pried open in 2 minutes.

3) An RSC that is 10-12 gauge and can be hacked through with a fire axe in a few minutes.

4) A >= B rate or >=TL-15 rated safe with a Group 1 Level lock. Will keep out all but the very prepared and experienced burglar.

Lock ratings:

GROUP 1
are highly resistant to expert or professional mainipulation. The protection against expert manipulation includes closed cams, notched tumblers, extra levers, or other advanced designmfeatures not found in convenional designs Group 1 locks are considered suitable for use on burglary 0resisting mdoels such as class TRTL015X6, -30, -30x6, -60, TXTL-60x6 and on vaults

GROUP 1R
afford the same protection against expert or professional manipulation as a Group 1 lock and in addition includes resistance against radiological methods of attack. Group 1R locks are considered suitable for use on firesafes, security files and vaults where the highest degree of protection is required

GROUP 2
are resistant to semiskilled manipulation. They are considered to suitable for use on general security containers.

Re: Can anyone recommend a gun safe?
 

Thanks grasp. I would like to hear more info or if someone could point me to educate myself better. I have been thinking about safes as my weapons are some locked in deadbolt closet and some just conveniently located about the house (we don't have kids). If you need a gun you need it when and where you need it. I would use a safe for ammo and other guns, and possibly some other items.

I currently run a couple of sucker spots where the would be burglar finds some FRN and gets happy and leaves, probably would take one or more of the guns that aren't secured if they were inclined. This would be really bad but would be obvious and the guns report missing. If I had a safe, same fools would have a reason to try to break it, take it, or failing that wait for someone to come home and torture them for the code. That's my concern.

I guess a gun safe for gun safety is great, but then they see it as a guns and stuff case, they want both, they lay in wait. Not sure there really is an answer here, just trying to wrap my head around it. Thanks for all responses.

Re: Can anyone recommend a gun safe?
 

I ordered a safe from these guys and it should be ready in April (!). I really like the concept.

Re: Can anyone recommend a gun safe?
 

Thanks for all the good answers and suggestions.
Lots for me to check out.

FWIW... Its gotta be "pretty" if you catch my drift... its going to be in the "inner sanctum" AND I found an outfit that sells and installs a combination biometric (fingerprint) and touch key pad on the safes they sell.

I've been Browsing

http://www.deansafe.com/

http://www.deansafe.com/bigunsa.html

They Have Liberty and AMSEC safes...

Thanks but I'm in Texas.

Thanks but that = teh FaiL on the "pretty test".

Re: Can anyone recommend a gun safe?
 

I like AMSEC.....get the largest safe you can - it will never be big enough. I like a safe that is at least 40 in wide x 60 in tall. Skip "Fire Rated". Just go for as much steel as possible. You can remove the door and bring it in the home in 2 pieces of no more than 500 lbs each. Go for basement if possible....gravity is your friend going in but not out. Load the bottom of the safe with lead. A loaded safe over 2000#...no stair case ever built can take that load. No set of men can move it. Walls are thick to cut into. Load about 50 lbs of black powder into the safe on walls and door. Put a big sign on the safe - loaded with high explosive reloading powder - do not attempt to cut into this safe - it will be your last mortal act....have a nice day!

They can come back and shoot your kid and make you open it.....but otherwise no way in without your help.

Rin a mess of wires and have a big battery and an old charger sitting on the top of the safe.....do a nice job of dressing the wires in with tie wraps....make it look very real.....if ever at gun point....tell them that it has a barrety back-up direct security line and once you open the safe you will have to disable the alarm.....this might buy you a few seconds to have a ready pistol just inside the door....come out blazing....you will probably get shot and one of your fsmily members may get shot....but you may all survive a potential/actual shooting ....but for sure...if they are forcing you at gun point...you will probably be dead soon anyway....so might as well have a chance to force the issue.

Do not have good lighting near your safe.....you want it to not be so easy to see your plan as mentioned above. Use a corder shop light for when you do need lighting.

Keep your mouth shut about your safe. This may save your life.

Hide your safe in a fake wall or at a minimum build a wooden box around it - keep it out of sight of strange eyes.

Only put guns in the safe.

Hide your PM outside the safe.

Re: Can anyone recommend a gun safe?
 

HA- I'm sure my wife will love seeing THAT every night before she goes to bed... :biggrin:


Texas= no basements

Re: Can anyone recommend a gun safe?
 

Attached garage? Never gets cold enough for condensation....but still keep a "golden rod" heater in there. Bolt that prick to the floor. Also....build a wooden enclosure....to mask the safe. Make sure to lock your cutting torches in the safe.

Seriously - put that sign on there - they will not take the chance....find a commercial reloading company in the area and ask for all their empty boxes and packaging.....stack it on top of the safe as a wake up call that you are serious about your sign. Empty powder cans and primer crates show you are serious. As far as that goes....put some zip locks full of FFF in there....let the bastards cut away.

I would not attempt to cut into it.

Re: Can anyone recommend a gun safe?
 

http://www.cannonsafe.com

No questions, my next safe will be from Cannon. Check out their warrenty, no other safe company comes close.

GN

Re: Can anyone recommend a gun safe?
 

With Cannon, 10 or 12 gauge does not do it for me. It's better than nothing, and if that's what you want, cool, as long as you know what you are getting.

Re: Can anyone recommend a gun safe?
 

How about a Rhino safe!

Rhino Series Safes

Rhino� safes are the country's highest quality gun safes, custom made in America to your exact specifications, with meticulous detailing, patented and exclusive security features, and a limited lifetime warranty.

Attack Proof External Hinge System

With our design, the hinges can be removed completely and the door is still entirely secure. Our external hinges transfer heat slower than internal hinge designs, resulting in superior fire protection. Also, with our hinges, you get over 180 degrees of door swing. Internal hinge designs are limited to only 90 degrees of swing.
Patented RhinoPlate™ Drill-Proof Armor

Located behind the vital areas of a Rhino gun safe door is a layer of advanced Tungsten Carbide impregnated armor to protect the lock, relockers and lockbolt mechanism from drill attack. RhinoPlate™ is substantially harder and more impervious to drill attacks than any armoured steel plate and steel ball bearing protection system used by other gun safe brands.
Patented Rhino Duolock™ Relocker

Actually two relockers in one. A spring-loaded device deadbolts both boltwork and linkage in the case of attack and tampering. Competitor's relockers merely deadbolt one or the other, not both.
Patented Integrated Boltwork and Linkage Relockers

Boltwork and linkage are designed to automatically jam if critical areas are attacked. These passive, integrated relockers cannot be defeated or accidentally triggered like standard spring loaded relockers.
Patented Anti-Tamper Linkage

A rigid, welded linkage provides superior security over the rod and pin linkages used by other brnads which can be easily drill defeated.
Patented Drill-Proof Crankshaft Design

Exclusive crankshaft design offers improved security against drill and force attacks over conventional safe designs. Boltwork automatically jams if crankshaft is drill attacked.
Exclusive Hardened Steel Locking Bolts

Hardened steel locking bolts fit in tight tolerance holes. All other gun safe manufacturers use mild steel bolts that have been chrome-plated to look like hardened steel.
Automatic Lockbolt Detent

Prevents the handle from being turned when the safe door is open. This protects the finish from being damaged from extended lockbolts.
Patented Positive Locking System

Hardened lockbolts cannot be forced into the gun safe's lock mechanism due to a patented exclusive design feature.
Plush Adjustable Interior

Plush shelves, wall, floor, ceiling, and door panels protect your firearms and add elegance. Adjustable top and side shelves allow you to reconfigure the interior to meet your needs. Custom interiors are also available.
Certified Protective Lining

Each Rhino safe design has undergone, as a minimum, a 50-minute fire test exposed to maximum temperatures of 1200�. All Rhino safes come with an advanced heat-activated door seal and two 5/8" thick layers of UL-listed fireboard to provide the heat shielding and insulation you need to protect your firearms and valuables. Up to 1/4" more than other gun safe brands.
Seamless Continuously Welded Body

A heavy-duty, 10 gauge carbon steel, continuously-welded body eliminates potential pry attack points. All safe bodies are pre-drilled for anchoring to the floor.
Solid Plate Steel Reinforced Door

Rhino doors are minimum of 1/4" thick solid steel plate on models 30, 56, 60, and 64, and 3/8" on the model 72. All safes come with a minimum of 2.5 inch thick angle frame reinforcement.
Pry Proof Door

The recessed door design fits into a solid steel reinforced body and 5/8" solid steel door frame. Potential pry points are eliminated.

As an option to the 10 gauge carbon steel, continuously-welded body, you can upgrade to either 1/4" or 3/8" carbon steel, continuously-welded body.
http://www.rhinosafe.com/index.html

Re: Can anyone recommend a gun safe?
 

I've had a Treadlok gun safe for some of my "toys" for ~13 years, and am using it for now on my PM's, but would not recommend that (or the standard Liberty) safe after having done some more research recently. Isn't the Errornet wunnerfull that way?

I'm attaching a nasty picture to my post. It shows how wimpy the standard thick sheet metal-walled gun "safe" resists less than 5 minutes of axe attack. In this case (found on http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=155988 , posted by an apparently respected locksmith member), the Liberty gun safe was breached, with the contents & burglars gone by the time police responded to the alarm. SCARY...VERY SCARY. Apparently, the burglar hacked through the wall of the safe & removed the contents. I'm not sure if they attacked the inside of the door to open it up, but it looks like that might have also happened.

From what I've read on the grand errornet, thick steel is your friend. Door thickness probably doesn't matter that much. Gun safe attacks typically occur from the side/back of safes (as in the Liberty safe picture). Wall thickness matters - 10/12 gauge steel is crap, easily breached by fire axe.

See:

http://www.brownsafe.com/categories/home/home.html
...and...
http://www.brownsafe.com/categories/...uying_tips.htm
(may need to cut & paste links)

Brown Safe & Graffunder ( http://graffundersafes.com/ ) seem most excellent. I'm sure that other vendors may offer decent safes, but please make double-damn sure that any safe you're thinking about buying is really "safe", and meets your needs.

Re: Can anyone recommend a gun safe?
 

Funny,
That safe must be a base model Liberty. I personally have seen several of the higher end Libertys at a local gun shop that withstood a 45 minute breach attempt by the ATF. They finally gave up and called in pros. Took hours to pop them.

Re: Can anyone recommend a gun safe?
 

I'd agree that it was likely a base model Liberty safe. Those have 12 or 14 gage steel walls (0.105" / 0.075" thick).

Even their top end model ("Presidential") only has 3/16" thick steel (type unspecified on their website) in the walls.

Here's a website showing a number of safes after being peeled (more scary photos!). It looks like by the time you get to 7-8 gage decent steel, the safe is much more resistant to being peeled by a fire axe.

http://www.sturdysafe.com/gaugethicknesswar.htm

Re: Can anyone recommend a gun safe?
 

Fort Knox. Google CES Safes in Pompano, FL to see a selection.

Re: Can anyone recommend a gun safe?
 

Thanks for the info CJJ - I'm thinking I'll turn the liberty into a photo and paper work box and leave it in plain sight and move a heavier box into the hidey hole. Bummer to have to reinvest, but cheaper than coming home to a busted safe.

Re: Can anyone recommend a gun safe?
 

You're quite welcome. Yes, it's a pain to reinvest. I looked back at my original sales receipt for my Treadlok. As with many things in life, if I only knew then what I (think) I know now....

Re: Can anyone recommend a gun safe?
 

8" diameter pvc pipe,silica gel,raised bed garden frames. pipe also good for ammo storage, valuables storage.

Re: Can anyone recommend a gun safe?
 

3/16 inch steel is heavier than 7 gauge, between 6 and 7 gauge.

http://www.unc.edu/~rowlett/units/scales/sheetmetal.html

If I buy a second safe, I will probably go with one of these 1 inch thick steel door models (after I cut a hole in the concrete floor).

http://www.brownsafe.com/categories/...loor_safes.htm

Re: Can anyone recommend a gun safe?
 

Yes, 7-8 ga is also still less than the standard 0.25" overall thickness required to meet the "safe" definition. Brown seems to make good safes. While Sturdy Safe seems to make decent units, from what I've read online by those "in the know", they are not rated as well as Graffunder or AMSEC safes.

All my reading has shown me that every safe/RSC manufacturer tries to claim unique properties that make their units the "best." When it comes time to buy a safe, I'll check things out in more detail, which will include visits to actual safe dealers (not sporting goods stores or the like).

Re: Can anyone recommend a gun safe?
 

Update:

Man - Safe shopping is tuff stuff...

I have been steadly working on this.. carefully taking into consideration all the excellent advice here.

I had somewhat of 2 fold limiting factor. -- FRNS that I was willing to invest in this. Turns out - all the high end safes in the size that I need are really expensive- 4k and way up from there. PLUS if I made a special order - there in many cases would have been freight charges associated with the order... from 200 to 450 FRNS:36_1_25:

I DID NOT intend to pay that. My budget was 2500 to 3000.

I was REALLY trying to get into a Liberty - I liked those very much. Sturdy and Pretty.

I simply could not afford what I really wanted.
Here's what I settled for.:

http://www.championsafe.com/images/crown_index.jpg


http://www.championsafe.com/triumph.html

Re: Can anyone recommend a gun safe?
 

Remember, if the USA is ever hit with an EMP pulse that wipes out all electronics, people with electronic accessing safes won't be able to get them open! :bawling:

Re: Can anyone recommend a gun safe?
 

Thought about that... went w/ the standard combo lock w/ a key.

Re: Can anyone recommend a gun safe?
 

You didnt mention the cost of bribing the wife in to letting you put that ugly thing in the middle of her family room.



Nice safe though.:applause_

Re: Can anyone recommend a gun safe?
 

True, but if that happens, there's always the old fashioned "peeling" method of opening the safe.

I've got an electronic keypad lock on my Treadlok safe. It is NOT perfect, preferring to open for me, rather than my wife (which might not be a bad thing!). I DO like the speed of opening (~2 sec), even in low/no light conditions. Try that with a standard dial type safe.

There are pluses & minuses with any piece of equipment. You pays your $$$ & takes your chances....

Re: Can anyone recommend a gun safe?
 

As a safecracker/machinist/welder:
Citysafe is the only brand I trust.
http://www.thesidebar.org/insecurity/?p=47

Also: bad plan. Guns are big and require a huge container->less secure containers. Cash and PMs are small and are therefore much easier to secure. If unsightlyness is an issue: use a floor safe for cash/pms/passports.

I'm buying 2 TLX-60 safe's off of craigslist for under $100 dollars. That's what you keep your money/pms/most valuable non-defense handguns in.->A nice round door cannon ball style safe.

For a gun safe: Either get a cheap fire safe or get a jewelers safe(insurance rating will tell you how good it is.)

By name specificially:
CitySafe is the best there is in non-jeweler's safe's. Might as well build a small panic room while you're at it.
It might actually meet insurance standards to be considered a jeweler's safe. I imagine it costs less on a whole.

I sent you a PM on gun recovery.

Re: Can anyone recommend a gun safe?
 

They're less secure anyway.

If it's not an X-09/X-08 it's not worth a crap.

Re: Can anyone recommend a gun safe?
 

JJ ShortStroke:

Get that lock upgraded to a group 1 ASAP before it get's shelved and forgotten.(the key lock can be opened with 2 toothpicks by a 5 year old.)

Group 2 locks aren't worth a crap, and every monkey with a borescope know's the drill points.

Jeff Sitar has opened group 2's in less than 10 minutes.

If it doesn't say S&G on the dial: get it replaced with a group 1 5 minutes ago.

Thank's to S&G's magic footprint you can replace it yourself if you don't want to pay a locksmith to do it. Worse case scenario, you have to have the group 1's bolt threaded to accept an adapter.

Seriously: get a floor safe for PMs.

Re: Can anyone recommend a gun safe?
 

update:

it finally came in.....
I like it.


http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/l...ke/GIMSAFE.jpg

Re: Can anyone recommend a gun safe?
 

Glad it was the right one.

Re: Can anyone recommend a gun safe?
 

I have a Liberty Lincoln for my guns and a Liberty Centurion for the cheap stuff and some ammo. Remember, get as much of a safe as you can afford.

Re: Can anyone recommend a gun safe?
 

Re: Can anyone recommend a gun safe?
 

Nice safe JJ. :ok: mtnman is right.. Bolt it to the floor It gives you a little extra piece of mind.

Re: Can anyone recommend a gun safe?
 

Unless you've got 1,000+ pounds of PMs in there. Then don't worry.

Re: Can anyone recommend a gun safe?
 

What is it w/ you guys??:dontknow:
I don't have any PM's....:mad_m:

Re: Can anyone recommend a gun safe?
 

What are you guys talking about?

I delete my PM's after I read them.



:biggrin::wink:

.

Re: Can anyone recommend a gun safe?
 

Yes, if it's not bolted down I can see it going right out that window beside it.